Curse

Xunlai Master · Dec 24, 2006, 06:54 AM // 06:54

My previous thread was full of flame so I'll try to keep this one clean.

I like GW and I play a lot. But I still don't understand why there are so many ignorant players in GW.. cos i think they ruin the game.

You can't expect a newbie to play like a pro, but ppl learn. Yet most of ppl I see in game don't even know the basics. They don't know what to do, don't have right skills or attributes and they complain NF xxx Mission is impossible, etc when all missions are dead easy if you know what to do.

Couldn't they just spend 10 minutes doing search on the net? I'm sure they'll find all the answers.

Look at Stygian trapping for example.
It can be done easily with 3 ppl. I've got around 20 gems using 2 heroes.

But most ppl do it with freaking 8 ppl instead of 3-4.

They use 6 trappers + monk + bip or 7 trappers + bip. (I'm talking bout gem farming teams)
And from my exp like 50% of trappers don't even have 16 ws.

or they have wrong skills. They trap at wrong spot, or harder spot and they can't lure properly. List just goes on n on. In fact it was much easier(n quicker) for me to do it with 2 heroes over 8 ppl pug team.

I would prefer to do it with another 2 ppl rather than using 2 heros cos I'll get same drops and it will be much easier for me cos I don't have to control two heroes. So I even tried to teach my method to other trappers, but no luck.

Cow Tale · Dec 24, 2006, 07:11 AM // 07:11

most people play to have fun and arent trying to impress you dude. get over yourself.

Coloneh · Dec 24, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

He is not saying that all new players are ignorant. he is saying that there seems to be an increasing number of new players who dont read the manual or take some advice from veteran players.
I ma very confused about these people's thought process. buy a game for ~$50 then dont touch the manual, but immediately jump into the game with the mindset that you know everything and no one can help you learn anything about the game. Earlier today I was in a mission outpost (name escapes me, on the luxon side) solofarming a boss and between run i get an invite from someone, so i click accept (always looking for people giving things away), as soon as i accept i see that he has a party window full of people he has invited. so i ask the guy if there was a reason he invited me and he simply said "u du mison", getting a little annoyed i told him that instead of randomly inviting everyone in the outpost he could try saying 'lfg' a few times or use the fancy new search button, then the response i have grown to expect happened he freaked out and called me a few variations of m***********g n00b that I have never heard before(at least he was creative).

Im getting a little tired of these people....

Makkert · Dec 24, 2006, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Back to the question the OP is trying to impose: 'WHY are people ignorant at this game?'
Sometimes I'm baffled as well. At events like Wintersday, one can see masses of people spamming questions in chat, while the answer can easily be found on fanforums or GWiki. I've wondered the question myself numerous times, and these are the reasons so far I've found:

1) new players still join GuildWars. if you are new to the game, you still need to learn.
2) there is a playergroup that works. they do their thinking at their job, and prefer to simply bash a bit away for amusement in their game.

Still looking for other explanations, I'm sure there must be more.

malignant-heretic · Dec 24, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

I ma very confused about these people's thought process. buy a game for ~$50 then dont touch the manual

I rarely read manuals, ever since the time of the megadrive(genesis) and the snes, ive rarely ever read a game manual. ( cept to look at the list of weapons in games like halo. ) i didnt read the Guildwars manual either, i prefer to learn as i play. the majority of games have some sort of intro / tutorial anyway.

And xunlai master, i personally think your being the most ignorant here, so some people arent up to your "1337" standards and that makes em ignorant?
You said:

Quote:

Couldn't they just spend 10 mins doing search on the net? I'm sure they'll find all the answers.

well to put it simply i think alot of people dont want to look at guides and walkthroughs. im one of these people, i think reading walkthroughs and guides is basically getting someone else to play the game for you. While im not denying that ive never read a walkthrough, ill always give it a few solid goes before i have to.

Quote:

List just goes on n on. In fact it was much easier(n quicker) for me to do it with 2 heroes over 8 ppl pug team.

then use 2 heroes and stop whinning about the way others play the game.

i totally agree with what Stormcloud and cow tale said, you need to get over yourself dude.

Akhilleus · Dec 24, 2006, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

I ma very confused about these people's thought process. buy a game for ~$50 then dont touch the manual, but immediately jump into the game with the mindset that you know everything and no one can help you learn anything about the game.

if you think reading a game manual will give you insta-skill in said game, then i suggest you quit gaming.
the average skilled gamer probably has a learning curve of about 5-10 minutes (minus small details) in any game in a genre they're familiar with.
any gamer that has to resort to manuals to learn what they are doing, will probably have to spend 10X that to get their bearings.

reading manuals does not equal success.
and yeah, short of reading up on the weapons in an FPS, i never touch the things (and even then almost all FPSes have the standard shotgun-type weapon, assault-rifle-type weapon, pistol-type weapon, sniper-rifle-type weapon, rocket-launcher-type weapon, and occasionally a few different ones as well [then theres grenades, rail launchers, etc])

Xunlai Master · Dec 24, 2006, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cow Tale

most people play to have fun and arent trying to impress you dude. get over yourself.

I agree with you on one thing, ppl play GW for fun (inc myself).
But that is the problem. cos GW isn't really fun when u play with ignorant player(s). This isn't much problem for me cos I avoid them but I was simply pointing out the fact that there are soo many of them around. so i'm starting to thinking that many GW players are unable to learn simple things for watever reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by N E D M

Impart your trapping wisdom upon me, Great One!
I am as a sponge. . . . .

You have to be a Super Pro if u want to do trapping.. cough. Seriously trapping is dead easy, all u have to do is press the buttons for traps. But that was my whole point, I can't even find decent ppl to do trapping.

Stormcloud · Dec 24, 2006, 08:12 AM // 08:12

My point is why do you insist on bashing other peoples idea of fun by calling them "ignorant"?

Perhaps running around trying to cast mending on the enemy monk is their idea of fun.

Perhaps some people just throw skills on their bar because they think they are neat.

And last but not least,

Perhaps not everyone could ever possibly live up to your expectations.

strcpy · Dec 24, 2006, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Probably the same reason so many people can not even attempt to write English and use "cos", "ppl", etc. Mis-spelling is OK and acceptable if one is trying and a rare use of them is OK - it happens (and some people do have a learning disability - I'm dyslexic and must depend on an inline spell checker). But for many of us, it really degrades people message to use such writing.

Of course, it is the internet - lots of people on it. I had to get used to it, accept it or leave. Like them, I'm sure you have your reason - maybe the are that way because they are out to have some fun and do not want to invest the time needed to meet your standards (much as I am sure you use such spelling to save keystrokes). Nor is my general dislike going to change anything - interesting to note that there is a high degree of correlation between an increase in ignorant players and an increase in lazy writing when there is no reason to do so.

Not a flame - write how you want. Just remember that I'm sure you have great reasons for writing like that and many of us absolutely hate it (I would much rather play with an incompetent player than read pages of modern internet shorthand) just as those "ignorant" players have their internally valid reasons regardless of if the other person finds said reasons acceptable.

Cow Tale · Dec 24, 2006, 09:40 AM // 09:40

everyones version of fun is different. some ppl like to learn ultra leet ways to farm, others like to host "naked dance parties". not all these so called ignorant people are new either. i take breaks from farmign and questing to goof off in outposts. all the peeps that are new wont always be new. they will all learn the basics. i think its these 'ignorant" players that i get the biggest kick out of. they always make me laugh but i dont harass them. i had one guy try and sell me a cho weis axe for 45k claiming it was worth that since it has a low req! =) this is kinda like like PUG bashing, i love pugs they are so fun. who cares if they suck and u lose? its more fun than the silence of heros.

LOL Mending enemy monks FTW!! ill have to try that one! =)

Zakarr · Dec 24, 2006, 10:34 AM // 10:34

GW has unique amount of ignorant players because...

- the whole community can meet each other (no private realms)
- effective gameplay is very different compared to other more traditional online RPG games (adaption will be required)
- no monthly fee (more moms to agree with their sons about purchasing the game)

Also we can blame the modern society about how young generations should be raised. No real punishments, everything comes in silver plate, etc. which will amplify in GW because of seamless community compared to other games.

gavin456 · Dec 24, 2006, 10:52 AM // 10:52

mate, gw is a game where people choose how they want to play itif them dun want <16 ws maybe they got their own reason. People learn from their mistakes so if u think they are noobs or w/e let them grow and u should grow up too.

Dcom67 · Dec 24, 2006, 12:10 PM // 12:10

To me ignorant is not the right term.
Ignorant players IMO are those running around calling others names,trash talking ,being obnoxious etc

To me your are refering to those less experienced players, or under equipped. Could be for many reasons.
- lack of funds ,or know where to aquire proper/better skills, equipment
- may have been in too many pugs for too long and are used to having the group shoulder most of the load
- quite a few people i ran across dont know about some of the great web sites full of information on just about anything they want to know.
- Just as there is some really good players , there is those that just plain dont know any better, are having fun and dont care to change, then some in the middle that would want to learn more to get better.
- may not realise thier character is not very good, if they have not seen one at a higher potential

Myself if I was doing fine with a couple heros , well I would just keep at it and be happy.
There is always going to be some that will solo things, solo with heros/henchies , and those that want that big group.
To each their own

Pucca · Dec 24, 2006, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Although, there are a certain type of 'new people' that are really irritating and truly ignorant.
For example the ones that think they are ultra l331 and once you tell them something (eg. don't do this or we'll fail the mission) they flame you for it, and for some reason their caps lock button is usually broken as well.
This type of behavior can be seen first handedly in RA and PUG AB. For example this happened a few times;
you spend your time targeting a bond monk then telling them he/she is bonding and then they attack a different person and when your team loses they call everyone noobs.
These type of people, has to be right and are not willing to learn from others are the ignorant ones.

Water Angel · Dec 24, 2006, 12:42 PM // 12:42

most players come from other games where they used to be(or at last they think so) leet.

so in their little brain nothign change.no matter if its a new game where they have to learn stuff.they was *pro* in other game so obviously they are pro here too no matter they just started...

Kamatsu · Dec 24, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Please keep to the topic at hand. Any references to his previous thread will get deleted/removed. Also, please no flaming - you might not agree with his idea(s), but that does not justify or excuse flaming him/this-thread. Feel free to post your thought's on the matter - why you agree/disagree with him and his subject matter, but flames, personal insults, etc will not be tolerated.

Mr Jazzy · Dec 24, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

many players just use guild wars as a stress reliever, not as a full-focused hobby. like me, i don't really focus in guild wars all the time. i find it more fun to just kick back and use skills whenever.

you may classify me as a "casual" player, but this is what guild wars is meant for, the casual person. and if you really hated playing with other people on a team, try HvH battles or just use pure henchies.

Terra Xin · Dec 24, 2006, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dcom67

To me ignorant is not the right term.
Ignorant players IMO are those running around calling others names,trash talking ,being obnoxious etc

To me your are refering to those less experienced players, or under equipped. Could be for many reasons.
- lack of funds ,or know where to aquire proper/better skills, equipment
- may have been in too many pugs for too long and are used to having the group shoulder most of the load
- quite a few people i ran across dont know about some of the great web sites full of information on just about anything they want to know.
- Just as there is some really good players , there is those that just plain dont know any better, are having fun and dont care to change, then some in the middle that would want to learn more to get better.
- may not realise thier character is not very good, if they have not seen one at a higher potential

Myself if I was doing fine with a couple heros , well I would just keep at it and be happy.
There is always going to be some that will solo things, solo with heros/henchies , and those that want that big group.
To each their own

This is the only post that I really agree with. I really don't like threads that make an attempt to generalise a group or population, without giving proper recognition to the details that Dcom67 has outlined. Some people are ignorant? Yes. Does someone become ignorant simply because they conflict with your way of thinking? Its a selfish perspective of ignorance, so no. Is there something you can do to change that? It's called teaching, but that's up to you.

Personally if someone asks a question, I'll answer it if I'm available. What I don't like seeing is people who give the most rudest of answers and totally take the crap out of the person who asked the question. Regardless of the number of people who ask the same questions, the ignorance comes in the fact that they are not likely to know that the question has been asked many times before. If you get tired of answering the repetative questions, turn off local chat and take a breather, before you say something you really dont mean to say.

Instead of coming here to complain about how ignorant you think people are, if you have the ability to make a difference, do it - tell new players that there is a website called gw.gamewikis.org, or answer the questions yourself. If you can't or don't want to, then don't answer them. But don't bitch and moan yourself, you're not making yourself any different from those you think aren't you yourself.

You'll be suprised, but if everyone helped one another instead of shutting them down and calling them ignorant, Guildwars would have a much better community. But, thanks to us, Anet are getting grey hairs just witnessing what happens here. I've said it a few times, but we are a really negative bunch of people that complain about everything. People know that it's Wintersday... right???

Relambrien · Dec 24, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Just to clarify....
From dictionary.com:

"Ignorant - lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man."

Ignorant does not mean that they aren't willing to learn, it's just that they HAVEN'T learned. But yes, there are people, an increasing amount, who refuse to admit that they are ignorant and thus deny help from those more experienced than them. Do what I do and avoid playing with them. You may find yourself on a team with someone who isn't playing a build optimally; state what he/she can do to play better, politely of course, with reasoning behind it. Hopefully, the person will recognize that you are more experienced in the subject and are to be listened to.

IMO, the best players aren't the ones with the best skills, it's the ones who are willing to learn from those more experienced than them, who can admit when they're not right, and who accept criticism and suggestions with open arms.

But as was previously stated, the GW playerbase doesn't have as many of these people as we would like. I forget who said it, but someone made the remark that because GW is free-to-play, more parents will purchase it for their kids. Heck, that's how I got started, albeit at a slightly older age than most others. Unfortunately, most of these kids cannot accept the fact that they're not the best, and that they pretty much utterly suck when they first start out. Just try to weed these delusioned elitists out, and avoid playing with them. There are some, after all, who are willing to learn from those better than them.

leprekan · Dec 24, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Heroes are better than most pugs. If the OP cannot find atleast 1 human friend online .. perhaps the issue is not how bad the pugs are. Nobody forces ANY of us to group with an unknown. Choosing to do it and then ranting about it is rather priceless.

Happy Holidays